Gary's Metal Detecting Forum
Gary's Detecting forum => General detecting talk => Topic started by: Devondeus on March 04, 2017, 08:10 am
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We all know technology is a fast moving cycle of new developments, be it smartphones, smart watches or the like. Since 1978 when I started detecting there have been some truly fantastic developments in our hobby, and on that thought I am trying to see where it will be heading as technology advances??
One thought that has come to mind for me is programs for our machines. With all Detecting we are are very much governed by the conditions of the ground and its composition, I think in the near future we will have a detector that will sample the site conditions and composition on that day you are detecting, feed the info back to a server somewhere, perhaps XP HQ ! and a program will be relayed back to the detector, site changes from field to field will also be sent and adjustments will be constantly fed to the machine throughout your search time in order to optimise your search.
It would be good to hear some your thoughts on where you see the advances in detecting technology going?
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Possibly a hybrid of the traditional detector coupled with ground penetrating radar. A screen would show the outline of the identified target.
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The depths havn`t been advanced to any significant increase since the early 80`s really. Lots of works been done on the stabilization and Ground controlling but they still havn`t discovered how to get a detector to pick a silver coin the size of an Edward1st penny up at over 8 "to 10" in 40 yrs of building detectors. They still struggle to get the Power in a detector to master the depth issue on a discriminating detector.
So my answer to the question is, At the moment ,no where really in the real important question of depth seeking ..
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Possibly a hybrid of the traditional detector coupled with ground penetrating radar. A screen would show the outline of the identified target.
GPR takes readings at differant depths and enables you to look at the slices of data, it will show walls and ditchs but only as Lines, very hard to interperate, it will not show a image of a gold torc etc by any means.
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More interactive screens has to be on the cards surely? At the moment we have 4G but I think in the future there will be reliable links in the fields, and as suggested previously, links to 3rd party support while your in the field. How much this will benefit is questionable but I could see it happening.
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I think 3rd party support will in time play a bigger part. In V4 we will have connectivity with our smartphones, this on its own could pave the way for data movement to assist the detectorist, especially if GPS could provide mapping info from online sources such as tithe maps of areas allowing the detectorist to access info on old paths or route ways whilst actually on the ground detecting as the information is being relayed to him/her.
The mind boggles !! ???
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The price could boggle too ! ;D
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The price could boggle too ! ;D
Oh yes, we'll have to pay for it ??? But then again look at the price of the Alter 71 with all it's frequencies and deep layers of settings. Technology is getting cheaper and it may be that machines have a lot more in them for a surprising price tag. My Lenovo tab is loaded with features for 90 quid, it would have been 400 7/8 years ago.
The Deus and CTX were a bit "out there on their own" a few years ago wouldn't you agree? and therefore it's plus £1000.00 if you want to be in their clubs, however, more and more tech is available and more and more manufacturers are prepared to offer this at less. I can't see XP lowering the price of the Deus any time soon, they are still selling well and besides, it would be seen as an act of admission that the opposition are onto something, but the next few years could be very interesting.
I do think the days of the tones only machines are numbered though. We all know that Deeptech and some others have their fans and do a great job, but I just can't see them appealing to enough of the market in the coming years, not when you have the temptation of so many detecting computers and gizmos right now and even more-so in the future.
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s on its limit now despite all the years they use the same power and same coil sizes, the coil designs have not changed they are omni directional whereas a directional coil would project the signal further into the ground there needs to be a major rethink in ways to increase ways of raising power out put all the filtering in the world only uses up power and slows down the detector as the processor has only a limited capacity and the more it is asked to do the longer it will take to do it. electrical components are cheaper now than they used to be but none of our manufacturers offer discounts or big sales of old stock etc. we are in a captive market place where the manufacturers have been re-badging the same old technology sticking a new livery on it and bingo we pay yet another couple of hundred quid to own the latest technology, XP made a break with traditional detector design however despite this they are struggling to make massive improvements, Minelab spent millions on developing the CTX3030 only to have to admit the the CTX is no better than the Etrac performance wise, it shows you can claim its digital not analogue it can do this or can do that but in the end if it does not move the performance forward then is it really new or better?
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s on its limit now despite all the years they use the same power and same coil sizes, the coil designs have not changed they are omni directional whereas a directional coil would project the signal further into the ground there needs to be a major rethink in ways to increase ways of raising power out put all the filtering in the world only uses up power and slows down the detector as the processor has only a limited capacity and the more it is asked to do the longer it will take to do it. electrical components are cheaper now than they used to be but none of our manufacturers offer discounts or big sales of old stock etc. we are in a captive market place where the manufacturers have been re-badging the same old technology sticking a new livery on it and bingo we pay yet another couple of hundred quid to own the latest technology, XP made a break with traditional detector design however despite this they are struggling to make massive improvements, Minelab spent millions on developing the CTX3030 only to have to admit the the CTX is no better than the Etrac performance wise, it shows you can claim its digital not analogue it can do this or can do that but in the end if it does not move the performance forward then is it really new or better?
Interesting comments Redfoot.
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Very interesting posts, I think with the advancement of phone tech over the past few years and XP linking the deus to the phone is going to open great advancements in the future, like a display showing the shape of an object, the control box could send the signal to the phone and an app could be developed so the interpretation could then display a pic or shape of the buried item on the smartphone.
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As suggested, I think there will definitely be more interface between phone and detector..
And yes this all comes at a cost, but an exciting prospect I feel!
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The Minelab Go-Finds already link to your phone for wireless headphone use and you can control the Go-find from your phone. The whole thing is connected to an app for finds recording. The machine is less than 300 quid so a lot of the technology is not expensive, whereas recording finds and funding FLO's is. I can see a future where you open the PAS app, open a folder, and record your position in the field, and then add photos later before hitting the send button and off it goes to the museum. Recorded finds should go up, costs come down. Slightly drifting off topic because this doesn't need to be in the detector, but it's an indication of what can be done at low cost.
Imagine a 12 pixel camera in the Deus remote and a micro SD card.. The whole day recorded as you hunt and downloaded into your laptop when you get home. That would be neat.
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Great for those wet and windy days when can't get out!! Relive the last trip out.. Sounds good to me ;)
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Very interesting posts, I think with the advancement of phone tech over the past few years and XP linking the deus to the phone is going to open great advancements in the future, like a display showing the shape of an object, the control box could send the signal to the phone and an app could be developed so the interpretation could then display a pic or shape of the buried item on the smartphone.
Blimey I think the idea of linking to a smart phone is a rubbish idea the last thing I want is something else to look at or suck the battery life out of the phone ?
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I reckon sometimes we forget the basics of detecting and want maybe too much laid out on a plate for us .I say that because otherwise arn`t we just eroding the initial fun of how we do our detecting and just get lazier & lazier in out procedures. I say lets try and keep the technology under steady control without losing the plot.
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Very interesting posts, I think with the advancement of phone tech over the past few years and XP linking the deus to the phone is going to open great advancements in the future, like a display showing the shape of an object, the control box could send the signal to the phone and an app could be developed so the interpretation could then display a pic or shape of the buried item on the smartphone.
Blimey I think the idea of linking to a smart phone is a rubbish idea the last thing I want is something else to look at or suck the battery life out of the phone ?
I spend all week looking at computer screens, I just want to detect relying on the mark 1 ear drum, that's why I like the hot and ultimate programs.
I oftern work with a Geophysical unit GPR etc will not produce a image telling you if it's a coin or a washer ( not yet) . Imagine a app that tells you where a old path etc is on you're machine, you go on a commercial dig were you meet in a car park and follow the organiser, when you get to the field everyone will head to the same area, you'll be detecting six a breast not my idea of a relaxing hobby. I enjoy this hobby because I can get outdoors with the chance of finding history, I don't cry if I don't find a Hammy, let's just enjoy what we've got
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Yes I agree nailman. What happened to the days where we had a detector that sounded off if it went over metal because The Idea was to SEARCH FOR IT.
Now were not content with that ,now it seems we want the bloody coins jumping out the ground with their hands in the Air shouting "I surrender ".
I`m all for having a bit of "assistance" to some degree ,but not to the point where we can even see the coins or whatever on a screen before we dig them. To me its taking the fun and mystery out the equation when we search and making us nothing more than just plain lazy.
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Yes I agree nailman. What happened to the days where we had a detector that sounded off if it went over metal because The Idea was to SEARCH FOR IT.
Now were not content with that ,now it seems we want the bloody coins jumping out the ground with their hands in the Air shouting "I surrender ".
I`m all for having a bit of "assistance" to some degree ,but not to the point where we can even see the coins or whatever on a screen before we dig them. To me its taking the fun and mystery out the equation when we search and making us nothing more than just plain lazy.
I agree with you, and nailman, and the Deus is all I want, but I can't see it stopping here, gizmos for the gizmo generation.
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Technology is great when it works however when it goes wrong there's hell to pay, will this technology be on all phones and what cost will the app be? boy waiting for yet another update to down load, image the screen when you have a target below a piece of junk, which item will the imaging lock on to?, at the moment by approaching an iffy signal from different angles your ears pick up and can hear a good beep above an iron growl and you decide, some you dig some you don't, EMI is a big issue on some sites how is your phone going to screen that out? I think this is a nice idea but its a long way away, and what if you need to buy a really expensive phone on an exclussive monthly cost?
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Star treckies and Cowboy fans.. ;)
I know which chuck wagon im on... yee haa !!
Move em out.. :D
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Just another thought, your phone can be tracked if you are making good finds and have agreed with your landowner not to disclose his or her details, they will be well chuffed when the archies turn up wanting to carry out an excavation on the fields and possibly make the Land owner stump up for the cost, like I said technology is great when it works however there are so many other uses technology can be put to with or without you knowing, if they can record every key stroke on your computer they would certainly be able to see what a mobile phone is finding and if you found it and did not report it you may find yourself having to explain where the item is now
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I can see it now. Your putting a lovely hammy in your pocket and you get a text "Notification from PAS, please record this find" ???
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I can see it now. Your putting a lovely hammy in your pocket and you get a text "Notification from PAS, please record this find" ???
You shouldn't need a text notification if you're a responsible detectorist
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I can see it now. Your putting a lovely hammy in your pocket and you get a text "Notification from PAS, please record this find" ???
You shouldn't need a text notification if you're a responsible detectorist
Quite right, just a bit of fun.
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There are those who are becoming very interested in our hobby and its activities they read on Facebook and on forums of groups and clubs paying up to £500 a day being paid to detect certain fields or farms they know it is either a weekly or bi-weekly event and goes on all year so £500 x 48 weeks = £24,000for one farm there are 52 counties in England say just as a figure 15 farms per county involved then you are talking of a figure of around £18,720,000 a year no tax which may not being declared how do you get proof simply get those involved to sign up to a technological improvement which can be traced hacked and the GPS will tell them where you were and when then the farmer is in the sh*t for not declaring his income, there could be tax liabilities for the organisers of groups and clubs who have a duty to inform who they have paid monies to as all money / income is liable for tax Farmers and Landowners may have the additional burden of VAT avoidance and we know what they are like. it is a cash orientated hobby who raise a lot for charity however we also raise a lot for the black economy, our hobby is under scrutiny so sneaking in GPS and links to phones does not seem such a good idea once the technology is used in a very different way does it
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There are those who are becoming very interested in our hobby and its activities they read on Facebook and on forums of groups and clubs paying up to £500 a day being paid to detect certain fields or farms they know it is either a weekly or bi-weekly event and goes on all year so £500 x 48 weeks = £24,000for one farm there are 52 counties in England say just as a figure 15 farms per county involved then you are talking of a figure of around £18,720,000 a year no tax which may not being declared how do you get proof simply get those involved to sign up to a technological improvement which can be traced hacked and the GPS will tell them where you were and when then the farmer is in the sh*t for not declaring his income, there could be tax liabilities for the organisers of groups and clubs who have a duty to inform who they have paid monies to as all money / income is liable for tax Farmers and Landowners may have the additional burden of VAT avoidance and we know what they are like. it is a cash orientated hobby who raise a lot for charity however we also raise a lot for the black economy, our hobby is under scrutiny so sneaking in GPS and links to phones does not seem such a good idea once the technology is used in a very different way does it
Well said I'am all for donations to charities , but like you say. some of these digs are pure profit
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whats new ! ??? ???
This type of things been going on for years ,its nothing new.
I can remember going to rallies in Norfolk ,must have been 20 years ago where there was a woman called Cheryl organizing digs/ rallies call them what you will, and it was £30 a week end in them days . One weekend I went and there was a thousand people attending . Work it out for yourself 1000 x 30= £30,000 . Lets say she gave the farmer in them days a hefty £5K .
There was no on site toilets (that i can recall)or entertainment. So I should imagine she was raking in £25,000 profit . Not bad for a few Tax free session a few times a year. So whats going on today ,is nothing new.
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whats new ! ??? ???
This type of things been going on for years ,its nothing new.
I can remember going to rallies in Norfolk ,must have been 20 years ago where there was a woman called Cheryl organizing digs/ rallies call them what you will, and it was £30 a week end in them days . One weekend I went and there was a thousand people attending . Work it out for yourself 1000 x 30= £30,000 . Lets say she gave the farmer in them days a hefty £5K .
There was no on site toilets (that i can recall)or entertainment. So I should imagine she was raking in £25,000 profit . Not bad for a few Tax free session a few times a year. So whats going on today ,is nothing new.
Thought I knew you from somewhere Peter. Myself and my brother (Gordon) used to regularly go to Cheryl & Adrians rallies.
Sorry to digress from the topic.
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;D Aye its a small world init ? Cheryls probably retired to the Costa del Sol or some where by now .
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Well that proves its been going on a long time now consider how many permissions we as a hobby will lose after the first prosecution when they say your honour we have based our assessment of the monies made based on the fact that according to the telephone masts at XYZ there were 175 mobile phones within the 35 acres owned by Mr. Smith for 8 hours on such and such a date, oh yes your honour he is a copy of the rally details from Facebook or so and so's forum page they said they were charging £?? for the weekend plus camping plus food plus entertainment please send Mr. Smith to jail do not let him pass go, we live in a different time now, the establishment are using technology more and more to gain any revenue that they can it is only a matter of time and the balloon will burst and our hobby will be greatly reduced in size permissions will be even harder to get, all so we can tie in our mobiles with our detectors
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They`ve been forecasting the banning of Metal Detecting since the late 70`s and its STILL HERE , so again, nothings changed . I just see silly people in the Archaeology depts and the likes of English Heritage Sabre rattling and giving out threat rhetoric annually, but !! were still here . Its all Hype and Gobbledygook ranting ,and frankly I`d take it with a pinch of Salt . I go to sleep at night and you know what , none of it ever passes my thoughts because If I ever got to the stage where I worried about it , I`d work myself into an early grave ..
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From what I have researched, metal detecting has a healthier relationship with archs than ever before, and there is far more evidence that we do more good than there used to be. There will always be those that refuse to change their mind. They would never ban detecting based on rally fees and money, they would tax it and make sure they got a fat wedge of it.
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well there is certainly mixed feelings on this issue lol, I for one love new tech and would want to be there using it, however it is a personal choice and those that want to use the ear drum can, no one would force them to upgrade, my hearing is slowly getting worse so a visual aid too would definantly be of interest to me.
The avoidance of tax would be the farmers problem for not disclosing it, I ran a rally a few weeks back and the farmer is going to be paid, its all above board in our club accounts stating the farmers details and a cheque made payable to him, its not our clubs responsibility to ensure he reports the unearned income to the revenue that's down to him.
Happy hunting every one which ever way you chose to go.
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I have seen a lot of changes in metal detecting over the years especially with the progress of technology, for example, GPS bluetooth and all the modifications you can alter on machines within the field and within the comfort of your own home such as downloading updates etc.
I have also never known so many people that are actually involved with the hobby unless they were always around and this has only been highlighted more through social media, such as Facebook, Twitter etc. The amount of groups on Facebook is unreal some years ago there was only ever a metal detecting forum such as this one.
Personally i think there can be a lot of hype regarding technology on new metal detectors last club dig i attended i noticed more people actually fiddling about with their machines than actually detecting. I like technology but regarding metal detecting i like to keep the technology simple and try and control 'It' instead of becoming overwhelmed with the array of settings.