Gary's Metal Detecting Forum
Gary's Detecting forum => General detecting talk => Topic started by: Sharkeysend on June 22, 2016, 11:04 pm
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Just thought I'd share with you the comedy answer I got back from my local council when I queried on what their position is in terms of metal detecting:
Thank you for your email. I have spoken to the head of service and he has advised your more than welcome to use your metal detector on council land however he has advised you cannot dig on the land.
... quality :-\
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Ha ha, that's the same reply I got from Hull City Council mate! Are we on the same area by any chance?
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Fenland District Council here bud, I guess a lot of them have the same type of folks running them :(
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Same down here with West Dorset District :(
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Same in East Devon
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Same in Yorkshire you can detect but not dig
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Having said that I took Ruby on our local playing field after the Sunday footballers had been on and she ended up with a few quid in change dropped from pockets with no digging needed, just a rummage in the grass near the halfway lines where they'd congregated at half and full time and jobs a good un!
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Stand back in amazement though folks - I followed up the initial query with the council, pointing out the government guidelines and whey hey:
Thank you for your further email which I have discussed with our Head of Leisure. I am pleased to say that your approach with a small dig and replace is acceptable but I have just been asked to point out that please could you not dig on any sports pitches though. As you say, many people would not even ask and your request is much appreciated. I hope you have some interesting finds.
Huzzah! ;D
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That's good news, if I try do you think they might start to think they have opened the flood gates, we live under the same council, Fenland.
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Stand back in amazement though folks - I followed up the initial query with the council, pointing out the government guidelines and whey hey:
Thank you for your further email which I have discussed with our Head of Leisure. I am pleased to say that your approach with a small dig and replace is acceptable but I have just been asked to point out that please could you not dig on any sports pitches though. As you say, many people would not even ask and your request is much appreciated. I hope you have some interesting finds.
Huzzah! ;D
Out of interest what are the Goverment Guidelines?
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Well, I found this link on a different forum when looking for a thread on council permissions (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/49837/Model_Set_2_Guidance_notes.pdf (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/49837/Model_Set_2_Guidance_notes.pdf)).
It reads:
Metal detectors
31. Local authorities may introduce byelaws to prohibit or restrict the use of metal detectors
in pleasure grounds. Byelaws to prohibit the use of metal detectors may be appropriate in
grounds requiring special protection, for example areas consisting of closely mown and
carefully cultivated turf and flower beds or sites of archaeological botanical or scientific
interest or areas much used by blind or disabled persons. However, a byelaw which
prohibits the use of metal detectors in areas not in need of special protection or from all the
grounds in a particular area may be seen as over-restrictive and unreasonable. The model
byelaw can be adapted to provide for partial bans as necessary.
32. Where a local authority wishes to introduce a byelaw to restrict or prohibit the use of
metal detectors in any ground, we consider that it should first consult any local metal
detector clubs or a national body representing metal detector users, such as the National
Council for Metal Detecting, 51 Hilltop Gardens, Denaby, Doncaster, DN12 4SA (website
address: www.nmcd.co.uk, telephone number: 01709 868521; e-mail:
trevor.austin@ncmd.co.uk). The Department for Culture, Media and Sport, Buildings,
Monuments and Sites Division, 2-4 Cockspur Street, London SW1Y 5DH (Dr Roger Bland
Tel 020 7211 2011 should also be consulted.
Whether my local council actually read it I'll never know but I thought it added something to my email in way of giving them some suggestive guidance and also backing up the relevance of the NCMD. It can't hurt to sound as informed and up on the subject you're asking about I guess.
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Thanks for that, very interesting. :)
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Funnily enough, what is "Council Land" ??? Councils are a group of people(public) voted in by the people(Public) ,to run the comings and goings of a PUBLIC place . The parkland belongs to the public(People) if its council owned. You are the public , so think on that angle . You, if detecting responsibly ,will do no more harm than moles do to Public Park` s. Golfers on Public Golf courses very often swipe the ball and miss time the shot ,and cut a big slice out the turf on driving the ball.Often young kids tear the turf up with their Push bikes Is detecting any doing any worse ,if a responsible detectorist cuts the turf and then replaces it correctly ,to either of those moles,kids, or Golfers who get away with it ?
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Funnily enough, what is "Council Land" ??? Councils are a group of people(public) voted in by the people(Public) ,to run the comings and goings of a PUBLIC place . The parkland belongs to the public(People) if its council owned. You are the public , so think on that angle . You, if detecting responsibly ,will do no more harm than moles do to Public Park` s. Golfers on Public Golf courses very often swipe the ball and miss time the shot ,and cut a big slice out the turf on driving the ball.Often young kids tear the turf up with their Push bikes Is detecting any doing any worse ,if a responsible detectorist cuts the turf and then replaces it correctly ,to either of those moles,kids, or Golfers who get away with it ?
I have to disagree here and I think we should be careful what we wish for. Damage from golfers happens on a golf course, usually private, and with paid employees to repair and restore, so this is a managed element of the sport. Push bikes only ruffle the surface when it's soft and this tends to naturally drop back fairly soon. Moles are part of nature and are viewed very differently to people digging holes in places where people want to walk their dogs or take the kids etc.
I worry that if we find ways to dig on council land we will encourage all manner of people to get their hands on cheap detectors and start hacking up loads of areas. Once we are visible in urban areas we can't control who decides to "have a crack at it" It's hard enough to get everyone to fill their holes on an organised dig, so imagine what will happen when people with no idea start jollying about with a spade leaving big ugly holes everywhere and don't give a monkeys. People will look down on the hobby and we could all be tarred with the same brush. How long before the local rags have stories of injured walkers falling down "treasure hunters" holes and completely blow things out of proportion, do you really think they would be balanced and honest??
Worst case scenario the heightened public awareness of detecting and bad press means the Gov talks of banning detecting as a loony government reaction to gain voters, it's an easy win. Or the councils reverse the decision, but the yobs stick 2 fingers up and carry on, and we all get labelled law breaking vandals. Part of what protects our hobby is the need to make an effort to do it and not many people consider it. I am not sure I want to advertise the fun and enjoyment of detecting to some of the people on the housing estates where I live ! ("oh no, what have I done")
It's frustrating when you don't have places to go, and a consenting council may sound like a dream, but be careful what you wish for. Yes, I would be pleased if Beds Council let me detect, but I would be bloody careful where I went and who saw me.
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Yes ,some valid points taken Keith. However human behaviour is very unpredictable in all forms of walks of life.
We would certainly, in a "perfect world" wish people could hold their drink when out simply socialising, but many often "normal " people turn into vicious drunks when they drink too much while out socialising . Should the answer then be ,putting a draconian total ban drinking or socialising ,to counter anything such of that antisocial behavior ever happening in the future ??.
They banned smoking in public places a few years ago . While it solved the smoking in public places issue ,it also killed off thousands of peoples livelyhood s because look at how many pubs have had to close down now in the UK through people not going to pubs now, because they cannot have a smoke with their Pint ? There are only so many "rules and regulations" you can apply before it turns to oppression .
By one or more councils giving permission it just goes to show that not every council sees itself as judge & jury against certain hobbies which incidentally is not what they are put in place to decide in a public place, if in general ,any hobby is causing little or no harm to anyone else, and as far as Metal detecting being banned,they have tried to ban metal detecting since 1977 and STILL havn`t achieved banning it.Metal detecting is no different to any other hobby insofar as if people that do the hobby act in a responsible and well being manner ,they will be no problem in allowing it in a public place such as a Public park.
anyway are you really suggesting that any " Government " ,would consider backing a ban on metal detecting just to gain support for them in an election ??? They`d have to be pretty desperate measures, to have to go down that route if they did. ;D
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When you dig and extract a find you are taking away property. That property, in the absence of the person who lost it, belongs to the local Council, who administer the land on behalf of the public.
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Yes ,some valid points taken Keith. However human behaviour is very unpredictable in all forms of walks of life.
We would certainly, in a "perfect world" wish people could hold their drink when out simply socialising, but many often "normal " people turn into vicious drunks when they drink too much while out socialising . Should the answer then be ,putting a draconian total ban drinking or socialising ,to counter anything such of that antisocial behavior ever happening in the future ??.
They banned smoking in public places a few years ago . While it solved the smoking in public places issue ,it also killed off thousands of peoples livelyhood s because look at how many pubs have had to close down now in the UK through people not going to pubs now, because they cannot have a smoke with their Pint ? There are only so many "rules and regulations" you can apply before it turns to oppression .
By one or more councils giving permission it just goes to show that not every council sees itself as judge & jury against certain hobbies which incidentally is not what they are put in place to decide in a public place, if in general ,any hobby is causing little or no harm to anyone else, and as far as Metal detecting being banned,they have tried to ban metal detecting since 1977 and STILL havn`t achieved banning it.Metal detecting is no different to any other hobby insofar as if people that do the hobby act in a responsible and well being manner ,they will be no problem in allowing it in a public place such as a Public park.
anyway are you really suggesting that any " Government " ,would consider backing a ban on metal detecting just to gain support for them in an election ??? They`d have to be pretty desperate measures, to have to go down that route if they did. ;D
Fair points Peter, I just think that presently we cause no issues where we detect and while councils could be a little more flexible to the hobby, open season on local areas could bring problems we don't need.
I worked in my local pub for 8 years, right through the smoking ban. It didn't effect trade. Many people (including myself) enjoyed trooping off to the smoking area for a change of scenery and a different natter before strolling back to the bar area. The cost of drinks and the brewery charges killed the local pubs. I packed up going to the pub because the cost started to outweigh the enjoyment. Most of the drinkers I knew are still going out. They take the bus to town where the big chains offer pints at £1.99, and they are thriving while the small pubs decline.
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Well Keith. I can truthfully tell you that 9 pubs in and around my area have closed in the past couple of years and I think of a few more out of my immediate are which also have closed. OK ,we could argue the toss as to what contributed the " most " to their closures, but I feel the no smoking ban dealt a hefty blow towards their closures , and probably rises in beer prices were the straw that broke the camels back.
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Well Keith. I can truthfully tell you that 9 pubs in and around my area have closed in the past couple of years and I think of a few more out of my immediate are which also have closed. OK ,we could argue the toss as to what contributed the " most " to their closures, but I feel the no smoking ban dealt a hefty blow towards their closures , and probably rises in beer prices were the straw that broke the camels back.
It is a tragic fact Peter, here in my small town we have lost 3 pubs in the last few years and a few others are hanging on. All the same drinkers are still out there, they have just moved to where they can carry on doing what they like for less cost. I'm not saying a few smokers didn't get fed up with it, but as a barman who lived through the change even many of the smokers said the pub was nicer now that it didn't stink. The cost of enjoying a few beers was however something that they were constantly bemoaning.
The breweries are a big problem, they advertise for managers and sell it as a great career but they don't give people the full picture. They make it sound easy to get crowds through the door but it's bloody hard work and a few quiet months are hard to come back from.
I worked for 4 different owners and 3 packed it in due to the overheads, and 2 of those got into bad debt as they desperately tried to hang on. They were left with no alternative but to keep pushing up the prices to try and make some money. We sympathised, but ultimately people started scaling down their nights out due to cost.
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Personally, I'd be happy if there was a permit needed for council land detecting, even with a nominal charge. At least that way there would be 'some' defense between official and unofficial detectorists. It might not deter all the wastrels that go out causing issues by being inconsiderate, etc but it'd be something. On a side note, the downside I foresee of detecting on council land such as parks, etc is going to be random people wondering up and disturbing me - unsociable I know but I suspect any detecting I do in such areas will be confined to less sociable times. Less popular council land shouldn't be too much of a problem I guess.
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Personally, I'd be happy if there was a permit needed for council land detecting, even with a nominal charge. At least that way there would be 'some' defense between official and unofficial detectorists. It might not deter all the wastrels that go out causing issues by being inconsiderate, etc but it'd be something. On a side note, the downside I foresee of detecting on council land such as parks, etc is going to be random people wondering up and disturbing me - unsociable I know but I suspect any detecting I do in such areas will be confined to less sociable times. Less popular council land shouldn't be too much of a problem I guess.
Wise words Sharky. Some of those people could be very disturbing indeed, and you have an expensive bit of kit in your hands.
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I would suggest you all get back on to your respective councils and tell them you want the same level of Civic Amenity shown to golfers horse riders football players rugby players allotment holders mountain bikers all are provided land to carry out their hobbies on public land and many do a lot more visual damage to the grass than digging out a metal object, tell them that they are discriminating against you and discouraging you from partaking in a legal past time, that is healthy and helps to remove waste and harmful metals from the environment and adds to recycling our hobby has so many plus points we need to pester these jobsworths till they stop discriminating against us it is public land that is being managed by people who have no interest in it or its use to the community at large fight them all the time dont give up use your MP get him / her to write to your council and explain why they are discriminating against you and metal detecting it works wonders
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I would suggest you all get back on to your respective councils and tell them you want the same level of Civic Amenity shown to golfers horse riders football players rugby players allotment holders mountain bikers all are provided land to carry out their hobbies on public land and many do a lot more visual damage to the grass than digging out a metal object, tell them that they are discriminating against you and discouraging you from partaking in a legal past time, that is healthy and helps to remove waste and harmful metals from the environment and adds to recycling our hobby has so many plus points we need to pester these jobsworths till they stop discriminating against us it is public land that is being managed by people who have no interest in it or its use to the community at large fight them all the time dont give up use your MP get him / her to write to your council and explain why they are discriminating against you and metal detecting it works wonders
I like your style Redfoot, you make a very good point mate.
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Living where I do if I went to my local park I would probably be robbed as soon as I dug up my first signal ! If I took a skateboard and a bag of weed I would be welcomed with open arms !
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A very sad state of the times. A bit like Sodom & Gomorrah times .
Well If any scroat wants to try & relieve me of my detector, they gotta go through my side kick Mr Spade first, to get to it !