Gary's Metal Detecting Forum
Gary's Detecting forum => General detecting talk => Topic started by: bob79 on January 09, 2016, 12:41 pm
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New series on tonight which caused a lot of controversy when it was going to be shown originally. It involves two detectorists going around the battlefields of Eastern Europe hoping to save historically important artifacts.
One of the detectorists is Addicted to Bleeps.
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Thanks` for that
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Thanks for a reminder. :) Jerry.
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I recall seeing one of bleeps videos on YouTube where he was quite upset about the trouble it had caused. Should be an interesting watch as he seems quite a decent fella with a good sense of humour.
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I think that I'd have left one particular gentleman buried out there in the woods... :P
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Good programme, thanks for the heads up
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The fact is that human remains should be treated with respect...
They most certainly were not in the original of this program.
Thus bringing our hobby into disrepute, making us all look bad.
Many people involved in the production have distanced themselves from it now and are publicly expressing incredulity at the series being sold on to new channels..
This gives the old school 'lets get detecting banned' type archies alot of ammunition imo. Not good.
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More info on http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jan/08/channel-5-accused-of-supporting-grave-robbing-over-tv-show-battlefield-recovery this program
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Was it only me that found that American pratt really annoying?
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So its ok for Time Team to rob graves then
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More info on http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jan/08/channel-5-accused-of-supporting-grave-robbing-over-tv-show-battlefield-recovery this program
Now look at the comments section , and click on the contributes twitter profiles, that's why there's so much noise regarding this program! If human remains were not found! the same people would have been complaining regardless, because the vast number of hand wringing liberal archaeologists are so set against what they regard as plebs with there metal detectors!
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So its ok for Time Team to rob graves then
There is a very thin line between Archaeological removel of human remains, which MUST by law be reinterred after a certain time, this allows tests to be carried out to see cause of death disease factors etc. I once helped excurvate 120 skeletons (Saxon) that we're going to be trashed by a pipe line.
And then we have grave robbing I have seen this on WW1 battlefield sites, the Archaeologists or contractors find a fallen solider and then some prat comes along and casually throws the bones to one side while they look for a cap badge which can be sold for a few Euros, there are thousands of gravestones in cemeteries with " Known to God" by disturbing the remains these prats remove any chance of the remains being identified.
Personally I don't condone grave robbing, or disturbing of remains for no reason.
Fair do's they did mention Blackdiggers on the program.
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So its ok for Time Team to rob graves then
The difference is that those dead soldiers out on the Ostfront were alive and well within living memory. Their close family may have no idea where and when their brother, father, uncle etc fell and have been living for the past 70 years wondering if...
A body lying in a shell hole where he was blasted is not in a proper grave, not when it's perfectly possible to identify and inter a soldier properly with dignity and respect. In 100 years time, this will be of less significance, though again, we fill in great gaps in our history by properly processing things found in the ground - we of all people know that.
As a keen collector of Third Reich material, I find the provenance of artifacts is a huge problem now to anyone with a conscience. Not so long ago, a huge proportion of stuff offered was cheap forged crap but nowadays it's increasingly the real deal, but looted en masse from such forgotten sites as on this show. It's hard to turn down stuff which may identify a pile of bones, I'm sure.
Eastern Bloc Govts haven't helped in the past, treating German war dead as trash and dumping it without due concern, whereas fallen Red Army troops were afforded every ceremony.
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Well this subject certainly got us talking. I don't know the background I just watched the show the other night. On it's own I thought it showed detecting in a good light. The people in the show certainly made the point about doing the excavation for the right reasons, and identified the baddies in the background.
From my limited experience I cannot see a reason why archaeologists should be against metal detecting. Not a justifiable true reason.
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the cocky american guy was worrying. his statement that he was a military tactician and new what he was talking about. just made me think of the charge of the light brigade.
luckily the JCB trench digger avoided any live ordnance on a known battlefield.
Eby
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Don't think I would be standing around that hole with that digger lol.
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Well this subject certainly got us talking. I don't know the background I just watched the show the other night. On it's own I thought it showed detecting in a good light. The people in the show certainly made the point about doing the excavation for the right reasons, and identified the baddies in the background.
From my limited experience I cannot see a reason why archaeologists should be against metal detecting. Not a justifiable true reason.
You still have a lot to learn grasshopper
Most modern Archaeologist embrace metal detecting as part of the survey procedures
The old school archaeologists hate us
Both camps disapprove of night hawkers who just strip sites for financial gain
Hope this answers you're query.
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Grasshopper understands oh wise one.
But what reason do old school Archaeologists have for hating the hobby? What do we do that can be seen as bad?
Everyone rightly detests nighthawkers, another name for thieves, and all thieves are scum regardless how they do it.
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But what reason do old school Archaeologists have for hating the hobby? What do we do that can be seen as bad?
Because they went to university and you didn't so they get their panties in a wad when some ordinary geezer with a metal detector unearths something from a field they probably drive past every day. They like to think their career path enlightens them with arcane knowledge that mere "members of the public" like us cannot begin to fathom, when in fact, anyone who is interested can teach themselves as much as they know without going to university, and be as meticulous about uncovering artefacts as Baldric & Co. *
When you look at the way certain famed and respected archaeologists and historians spout their "facts", you'll find that they haven't done any donkey work (ie. hands and knees in muddy fields, or going through boxes of papers in dusty archive basements) since they were students themselves. Often, the facts they present as absolute are shot down a few years later as utter BS. - they've decided something was a certain way, and that's that. When their fanciful theories are be shown to be wrong, it might be thanks to some bloke with a metal detector.
They certainly don't want some electrician or mechanic showing them up (not least because they have no idea how to wire a light switch or change the oil in their own car), they want their name on the placard at the museum, they want to be doing nice little speaking tours to hushed rooms full of people awestruck at their momentous hoard discoveries. They don't want you to be the man in demand telling of your finds, what have you done to merit the glory? (Apart from tramping up and down wet muddy fields in the cold for years, sifting out horseshoes and pop cans, obviously...)
That said, for all the hundreds of conscientious, sensible detectorists like I hope we all are, with more than a passing interest in what we find and the relevance to our society, history and culture, it only takes 1 bell-end in a shellsuit hacking a field to bits without due care and attention, then e-baying the loot, to reinforce the prejudices those archaeologists have. Sadly, I fear there are more than a couple of these, and they don't give a toss, so long as they are making a bit of bunce. I can understand why some people might despair at what is being lost, deliberately or through ignorance, when they spot someone out in the middle of a field with their coil.
* Obviously the chaps who do all the DNA tests on bones and carbon dating etc are the real professionals, the real clever ones, but they aren't the ones getting sniffy about detectorists.
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Very well put that man. :)
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As I have said before over the years, nothing changes only the faces
I also think its a good contribution. ;) :) Jerry.
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There are two breeds of Archaeologist
The academic verity they go straight from school to uni spend all their time writing papers that only other academic archaeologists read.
They claim we remove artefacts from sites with out recording their context and relationship to the area etc etc, and then we sell them on e bay. ( in practice 75% of our finds are in plough soil so we are rescuing the artefact from further damage by ploughing) and if someone finds a hoard the academics drool over it big time.
The second type is the commercial archaeologist, these are the guy and girls who work on construction sites motorways etc, I help a friend who is a commercial Archaeologist, they tend to embrace modern technology which includes metal detecting as part of a survey technique. The one I help runs a after school archaeology club we put washers 2ps into the long jump sand, let the kids find them with a detector, then plot map ref etc.
I was doing a History degree before a motorcycle accident, so have first hand experience of the academic archaeologist, there is Evan friction between academic and commercial archaeology
What a crazy world we live in
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When you look at the way certain famed and respected archaeologists and historians spout their "facts", you'll find that they haven't done any donkey work (ie. hands and knees in muddy fields, or going through boxes of papers in dusty archive basements) since they were students
Quote from Cornhollo
Totally agree see my post, tried to post this this morning but internet went down
How about we draw a line under this them and use as I feel we might be going of subject and hijacking a thread about a excellent program.
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As I suspected, Archaeologists don't have a REAL reason for not liking detectorists.
Thank you all for the answers to my question.