Rallies

[rabert]

Hi,
I hope you don't mind me posting this as a complete novice.  I had no idea about rallies until today.  Someone was saying you can't get farmers permission to detect because they get rallies of up to 100 people or more and charge £15 per head to make money.   There was a discussion of the pros and cons.    I can see both sides, but it changes my view of things

ttfn

[Willy muffit]

No not all strictly true
but it is very true that farmers have cottoned on to the fact they can make some serious cash
I do know of one group of 20 people that each put in £20 they then go to farms that dont normally allow detectorists on and simply say hi we are a group of just 20 friends and normally pay farmers £400 cash for a couple of days detecting
as you can guess most farmers then say ok
likewise when Farmers get asked about holding a rally on their land they ask for thousands of pounds

[Keith67]

You do get rallies, and you get clubs doing weekly digs.  I have two permissions of my own nonetheless.  Both have been detected before but there's nothing I can do about that, and you can't have it all your own way.   Not all farmers want rallies, my first permission is happy for me to detect but he isn't keen on large groups.  You can't blame a lot of farmers for allowing clubs and rallies, money talks.  It's another side to the hobby and a lot of people love attending them.  But it doesn't mean you can't get permissions, subject to where you live possibly. 

I think a lot depends on different areas of the country, some people can't get permissions anywhere near where they live and some people have several.  Some people love rallies and club digs, others prefer to detect alone most of the time.  I don't know how much of an issue the clubs and rallies are for solitary detectorists in other areas, but there are places to find permission in my area if you try, or maybe I have just been bloody lucky so far   

I have heard other comments where rallies don't even come into the equation, some people live in areas of the country that are protected and detecting simply isn't going to happen, so I have heard.

[JBM]

Its commercialism of what was once a family hobby.

We have always given our farmers a couple of bottles of wine on a Sunday visit.

But Hundreds of pounds a day that some accept for a dig is having an effect on some of our previously available land.

Thankfully there are some farmers and landowners who say No to having large numbers of strangers on there land and home area.

Understandably its human nature for folks having paid up to £25 for a day detecting hang on to their finds and its their choice to record or sell them on.

We find that a limited number of detectorists at any one time and giving the farmers catalogued boxes of finds is the answer to allowing us a revisit.

Its the times we live in with the advent of the internet and a means of folks thinking that they can make a financial gain while having fun detecting.

I have said what many others think,and it will all end in tears when possible legislation comes into place. Jerry. 

[nailman]

JBM,s right our club had so farms we used to goto but since Facebook digs at tiger we've lost a few to groups prepared to pay big money

[Redfoot]

I am fortunate in that I know a lot of farmers and as my friends will know I am not afraid to strike up a conversation with any landowner or farmer anywhere and it has worked very successfully in the past and hopefully will well into the future, if you are honesty and make a good representation to the farmer then you have every chance of getting his permission, I have previously arrange digs for clubs where up to 60 people have turned out, i charge them £5 a head which is often donated to the farmers nominated charity and a receipt raise in the farmers name, this is given to the farmer and he gets the money back through his taxes, the issues that tend to come up is when someone fails to declare their finds, or people leave holes or big pieces of plough shard on the top of the field, it is about showing respect, how would you like it if a bunch of strangers left all their yoghurt pots banana, empty drinks bottles in the hedges around your fields, silly things like driving across the field because you cant be bothered to walk over upset farmers, Most people have a home and a place they work and friends family etc. which are all separate, farmers have their farms it is there world most spend every day working on their farm or out in their fields tending animals or crops they can go days or in some cases weeks without contact with anyone else apart from other farmers and family members so it is in effect a closed system, all of a sudden they get one or a small group of Townies turning up wanting permission to search the land, appearance is a lot tattoos piercings etc. do little to impress or endear you to a farmer who experience has taught him Townies steal no not all of them but enough to cause farmers to be apprehensive about letting groups of people on to their land, you have to win them over, it took me 3 years to get on to one of my permissions, so keep trying and don't give up

[JBM]

Good post Redfoot. Jerry.

[rabert]

Thanks for an interesting post Redfoot.       I can't imagine people would drive over other peoples' land and mess it up.   I find that rather sad/offensive/ignorant ........

So.... these people that keep their finds .........    what happens?   This is obviously totally hypothetical but,   for e.g. if I found a really old coin and kept it;  then tried to sell it?        Or, conversely, if I have been given an old coin for a present, then eventually try to sell it -    could I be accused of finding it on land and not declaring it?

ttfn

[Keith67]

In all walks of life there are sad/offensive/ignorant people who don't always behave in the best fashion and I have witnessed this in a few hobbies over the years.

It depends very much on what the old coin is.  There are some of little value that don't need to be declared but obviously the more valuable they are the more likely that they should really be recorded.  People sell coins all the time, and that's a choice, however, the problem is when they should be recorded first so they can be added to the PAS database.

Then there's the matter of gold and certain artefacts that must be declared under law, and you could end up in hot water if you stick these on a selling site.  If you decide to buy a machine and give the hobby a go, then you'll need to look at a few websites to get the exact details, but I look at it from this perspective, if in doubt, declare it.  The worst that will happen is the FLO tells you to put it back in your pocket and take it home.  There's a really good interview on the XP Detectors channel on You-Tube.  Gary has a chat with an archaeologist and they discuss the rules around declaration of finds and what you need to do. 

[rabert]

Hi Keith,

Many thanks for the sound advice.   I've learned so much recently and thanks to everyone.    If I did take up the hobby, I certainly wouldn't do anything 'underhand' or dishonest.   I wouldn't dare show my face to colleagues -   not recommended !!
What actually set me off thinking when I read the post -    is that for years I have been given coins as presents -    but I certainly wouldn't want to sell them.   They will all have their stories to tell.      (I am sure they were all kosher )-   
I contacted the Crown Estate re the 'halt' on their Permit registration procedures.  They say they have "retired" their permit system while they address some technical difficulties with the registration process.   (?) - and can detect freely on foreshore and to read the conditions.
I e mailed the firm in Scunthorpe re metal detectors on 11th but they haven't written back yet.
Yes, I shall look on the You Tub XP Detectors channel.
ttfn
Thanks.

[Keith67]

I think there is a certain rule about all coins over a certain age need declaring too, it's all in the video 

[nailman]

In all walks of life there are sad/offensive/ignorant people who don't always behave in the best fashion and I have witnessed this in a few hobbies over the years.

It depends very much on what the old coin is.  There are some of little value that don't need to be declared but obviously the more valuable they are the more likely that they should really be recorded.  People sell coins all the time, and that's a choice, however, the problem is when they should be recorded first so they can be added to the PAS database.

Then there's the matter of gold and certain artefacts that must be declared under law, and you could end up in hot water if you stick these on a selling site.  If you decide to buy a machine and give the hobby a go, then you'll need to look at a few websites to get the exact details, but I look at it from this perspective, if in doubt, declare it.  The worst that will happen is the FLO tells you to put it back in your pocket and take it home.  There's a really good interview on the XP Detectors channel on You-Tube.  Gary has a chat with an archaeologist and they discuss the rules around declaration of finds and what you need to do.

It's still voluntary to declare coins and finds to the PAS unfortunately there are people who don't I was at a boot sale and a guy was selling what we would class as Roman grots for £15, I know of some detectorists that would chuck these into the scrap bucket, but I declare them it's evidence that Romans were on that site. E bay has a lot to answer for.
I have some coins that were given to me by a neighbour when I was a kid he used to dig holes for the Gas board, amazing the finds he used to get this was before metal detecting and bottle digging became popular.