Author Topic: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing  (Read 3735 times)

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Keith67

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Some iinteresting news, and surely the way we need to go to protect the hobby?
http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/bajrpress/historic-england-supports-institute-of-detectorists/
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seasider

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2020, 04:24 pm »
Not supported by NCMD, I gather.

nailman

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2020, 06:17 pm »
Not for profit ! who is going to cover getting a CCCS qualification requirements that Archaeologist have to work on commercial digs.


The  rift begins in the universities  some Academic Archaeologist hate Detectorists and pass this hate onto the students, however in  some universities  where the tutors have moved from the commercial archaeology sector metal detecting is embraced as a useful survey method alongside Geophysical investigations.

I started off metal detecting moved into Archaeology and over the years have helped on many Archaeological units as their pet Detectorist and also acted as a consultant to students writing about metal detecting in Archaeology.
However we all know there are some bad apples out there who would exploit any access to intresting sites.
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Keith67

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2020, 12:57 am »
Not supported by NCMD, I gather.

They are reserving judgement, which is fair enough I guess.  They have not said yay or nay.
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Keith67

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2020, 01:00 am »
Not for profit ! who is going to cover getting a CCCS qualification requirements that Archaeologist have to work on commercial digs.


The  rift begins in the universities  some Academic Archaeologist hate Detectorists and pass this hate onto the students, however in  some universities  where the tutors have moved from the commercial archaeology sector metal detecting is embraced as a useful survey method alongside Geophysical investigations.

I started off metal detecting moved into Archaeology and over the years have helped on many Archaeological units as their pet Detectorist and also acted as a consultant to students writing about metal detecting in Archaeology.
However we all know there are some bad apples out there who would exploit any access to intresting sites.


Well it's early days and I am keeping optimistic about this.  I don't think the idea is for detectorists to gain CCCS qualification from the IoD, I think it's more about forging good relationships and helping archaeology in our non professional capacity as hobbyists.
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rusty old bucket

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2020, 01:04 pm »
With over 2 million recorded finds on the PAS, and countless finds of National importance I think the hobby has already afforded the right to say it is responsible..

Some bad ellements exist, but that's true in all walks of life..

The problem I see is these schemes start out innocent enough and then evolve!
Not for profit becomes, for profit via a course fee, this then gets rolled out Nationally and then evolves further to the  cost of a course and then a  licence on top..
No course=No licence =No detecting lawfully

If you think licensing is a good thing fair enougth but it won't stop those bad elements and therefore is just another cost to people  enjoying their free time..
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Keith67

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2020, 12:39 am »
With over 2 million recorded finds on the PAS, and countless finds of National importance I think the hobby has already afforded the right to say it is responsible..

Some bad ellements exist, but that's true in all walks of life..

The problem I see is these schemes start out innocent enough and then evolve!
Not for profit becomes, for profit via a course fee, this then gets rolled out Nationally and then evolves further to the  cost of a course and then a  licence on top..
No course=No licence =No detecting lawfully

If you think licensing is a good thing fair enougth but it won't stop those bad elements and therefore is just another cost to people  enjoying their free time..


You're right Rusty, we deserve more respect for what we have found and declared, but we don't get it and the old guard still want to shut us down.
Maybe this is the only way to go?
I hope not.
I've been out for the last two evenings and loved my freedom to detect with my farmers permission, and I wish things could stay as they are, but I have a horrible feeling they can't.  I'm watching this with caution, but ultimately if it means the hobby stays legal I'll do what's needed to keep detecting.
You're absolutely right, it won't make any difference to those who operate outside the rules.  They will carry on regardless as they always have.
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Flatlander

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2020, 11:15 am »
Apparently this is supported by Paul Barford, the metal detector hating armchair warrior who wants us all wiped of the face of the earth, or as heavily controlled as possible ! The NCMD have put out a revised statement yesterday to say they do NOT endorse this, and I can see why, if this organization gets accredited and we all have to go through their training program to get a license to detect, not only paying for the training but a yearly membership to keep your license valid, then who sets their fees ? Will it be a nominal amount, not bloody likely, what other "conditions" will we have to abide by to stay within the parameters of the license ? Will we only be able to detect on our own permissions, will the land owner only be allowed license holders to detect on his land or forgo any financial help ? There is a lot unknowns about this very new "organization" and who is behind it, what is it's ultimate goal ? Who is financing the start up, is this a covert government/establishment ( read archeologist ) backed, funded organization to finally put an end to our hobby ? I smell a rat, a bloody big one with even bigger boots on that will walk in, take over and destroy metal detecting in England forever !!! (ps. be careful what you wish for)

rusty old bucket

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2020, 03:02 pm »
I don't think anything other than a total ban would satisfy the likes of Barford and a few others, but they are not taken as serious as maybe they once were...

If he genuinely backs this then my suspicions were right!

The other thing that raised alarm bells was the 50k from heritage England who in my opinion from reading their blogs and social media posts, etc over the years are not fans of the hobby,..



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Keith67

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2020, 03:22 pm »
There is a conversation snapshot between IoD and Paul Barford that has generated this link.  The responses from IoD are diplomatic but from what I've seen nothing to suggest they are working together.
I can understand detectorists caution on this, and if the "worst case scenario" is being sneakily played out here then that's not good, but yes we need to see more facts and intent.
We probably do need to meet in the "middle ground" here though, for years I have heard frustrated detectorists complain that the Archs don.t give us the respect we deserve and that we hobbyist are passionate people who love the history.  Well maybe we'll have to toe the line a little in order to achieve that. 

If this is an alliance then I am keen to know more.  I have no problem investing a sensible amount of time and money in a licence if it means the professionals accept my rights to detect, and collaboration with the Archs should make us respected and give the hobby a future platform.  If it's something more sinister then the detecting world will walk away from it, but that could be seen as the hobbyist snubbing the authorities, more ammunition for those who say we can't be trusted. (worst case scenario we are sliding into a trap and we can't avoid it)

I'm keeping an open mind and awaiting more info, a lot of the negative reaction I have seen is baseless, however, that's not to say there isn't cause for caution because clearly there is. I do hope we are not heading for a war between NCMD and IoD,  but that's a possibility.
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Flatlander

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2020, 07:07 pm »
The IOD will only get a foot in the door if people subscribe to it, if there is no take up of its, well whatever it's supplying, then those who hold the purse strings will not keep investing in something without a return, government backed or not, maybe if we just ignore it then it will disappear, fingers crossed.

rusty old bucket

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Re: The Institute of Detectorists gets Historic England backing
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2020, 11:00 pm »
The IOD will only get a foot in the door if people subscribe to it, if there is no take up of its, well whatever it's supplying, then those who hold the purse strings will not keep investing in something without a return, government backed or not, maybe if we just ignore it then it will disappear, fingers crossed.

100% agree. I have seen the same sort of "Voluntary, not for profit" schemes come into the building trade over the last 2 decades. And now I pay for the privilege of proving I have the skills that my qualifications already say I have every 3-5 years  , plus every course in between.. Taxed to work!

Personally I wouldn't touch this IOD with a bargepole or allow it to grow  ...
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